KnivesForum

[Real Montanan]

Yup FARGLED my first one.....but, I did it all by myself, I've been by myself, reading alone, studying alone, thank goodness for the internet to read.... that and buying books. I've never been in another knifemakers shop.
So, I had obviously too much on my little pea pickin mind yesterday. Can't for the life of me think why I would....wait a minute! ....yes I can!
I bought some kit knives about a year ago there bouts just to see HOW are knives put together... I bought a couple straight knives, a lockback kit, and locking folder kit to learn how they are put together... of all those knives and I think there where 5 total, I put one together and gave it to a friend. The rest are in a box somewhere here....... I mention this because I could drill those blades. I did it! And I could sand those blades to. I did that to those blades. They came from a BIG out fit to. And the heat treat was supposed to be done along with cryo on the one I gave to a friend. Well to make this short, I didn't get a couple of 1/8" holes drilled in the tang where they should have been for a bolster! And further, I didn't get the other holes drilled in the tang for the glue to ooze through and grab the other side of the handle material! I am dead meat huh?
Will a water jet do that job for me... or should I toss it in a drawer and forget about it!?
I did drive to town and buy four new bits and couldn't even get a scratch started...... I was shooting for RC61 - RC63 on a ATS-34 blade... I used an EVENHEAT KNIFE KILN which was superb to work with. And obviously did it's job well!
Didn't drill it in Montana....8 ^)

[Daithi]

You can get through it alright but it would take days the way I do it. They have some very fancy bits out there now that will go through almost anyrhing or so I hear. I use valve grinding paste and a copper or wooden rod. Coat the end of the rod in paste and go at it until you are an old man. Did you draw the temper on the blade , for sure ? 950 F 3 times for two hours each I think will give around 61RC. Sounds like you did a good job anyway. You know you could always cord wrap it')

[Real Montanan]

Very true all around with your approaches! Is it really THAT slow to put a hole in that way? This sounds too familiar to me..... GRIN! It sounds like one good cramped hand day and a guy might have a soft and wobbley mark and the next day your hand would give and you\'d have a crazy shaped hole you could never forget !!!..
To be honest with you though, I found three different Heat Treatment recipes for ATS-34 out here on the Internet! That did have me worryin for a bit. Then I went back to the beginning, to Admiral Steel and Hitachi.... I got the Hitachi from Admiral and the Heat Treatment I told of is what they have for a recommended method. This evening, I impressed the wife by sharpening the brass end of one of her exacto blade holders and then pulled my blades sharp edge across the top of my thumbnail edge and it was still smooth as glass... so I think the heat treat took all right at 932 for one hour. I will be keeping my ear to the ground about the three times though for sure. To add just a bit more to it all, I was a meat cutter for too many years to mention and have sharpened what seems like a mile or two of stainless steel down the sink of a packing house or two! So, I can tell you with some confidence that my homemade actually sharpens much more slowly than say one of our R.H. Forschner Co, Victorinox 6" flex boning knives ever did. Victorinox 403- 10" was all I used for cutting steaks and stuff and it seemed to 'grind' away much faster than my homemade also.....I don't know anything for sure other than even without the holes in my first attempt at heat treating I am very excited about the whole experience.... What an exciting project to have done! And I feel like the whole deal as a whole was success in spite of the error of not predrilling the blade. This afternoon I told a guy I was talking to on the telephone about this little misfortune, "If nothing else, I can wear it as a neck knife on Heat Treat days so as to remind myself never to do such a thing again.... and he didn't miss a beat suggesting that instead of neck knife, there was a better place I could stick it to remember not to do such a stupid thing again! I had to laugh! We were both laughing so hard we where about to cry! What a "blanking" deal!
I appreciate your efforts and words... Thank YOU! Real Montanan

[Daithi]

That sounds like about the right temperature range alright but the story I got was that if you at least do a second tempering cycle more of the austenite transforms into martensite and you will get a more stable structure and better blade. It has even been suggested that an extra couple of points RC can be obtained that way. The steel actually gets harder second time around. But I suppose you figure you got it hard enough the first time.
This is an interesting and very long thread on BladeForums that mentions this point about a second cycle. Those guys actually sound like they know what they are talking about and yet as you can see there is some confusion nevertheless.http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-158416.html
Anyway your going about it the right way, trying things out and seeing what works for you.
As regards drilling holes I have got through quarter inch hardened 440C with that method (2 days). Once you have the hole started the drill centers itself. You have to change the grit regularly as it wears out.
Mind you as mentioned earlier there are some very effective drill bit materials around these days. I'm just not very well up on it so can't comment. There was a good thread on the old knivesforum about this. Looking for it could take hours though.
Yeah a lot of commercial knives are heat treated on the soft side. I think its because the factories recognise that a lot of people can't sharpen a knife these days and also because they want to play safe in a high production environment and avoid having their knives break. Better a dull knife thats easy to sharpen than a sharp knife thats broken as they see it.
Well thats just conjecture on my part. Keep us posted on your further adventures. Sounds like you are having great fun and maybe we can all learn a thing or two.

[Real Montanan]

Had a machinist tell me that cobalt will do it eventually.... hang a wrench from your drill press arm and go do other things being sure to keep putting a drop of cutting fluid on the sweet spot now and then.... after 2 and 1/2 hours, a dimple. Just about that big to! Who knows.... the troubles will come when I penetrate the other side! I'll have to be hands on for that!

[Real Montanan]

Mercy Sakes Alive! SOLVED AND SWEET!
I just punched two holes in that AST-34 knife like I was drilling holes in an aluminum screen door! Less than 30 seconds for both..... NO KIDDING!
I put a bit in by ARTU-USA.... A Cobalt & Tungsten Carbide Tipped bit..... and the second it touched the Stainless Steel it was tic, tic, ticking and then as the drill press came on down on the stainless........shhhhhhhhhhoooooooooomm away it went- I held my breath and slowed down as I got to the bottom of the hole but heck it ripped along so smooth that wasn't even an issue! Right through that thing like **** through a tin horn! Or a goose which ever you prefer!
I was truly floored how after babysitting that thing all afternoon and getting the bad news over and over when I'd check my emails... by the way it practically "fell" through the knife!
Here is all you need to have your own......
ARTU-USA, Inc.
North Carolina
1-800-367-2788
http://www.artu.com
MADE IN GERMANY
realmontanan

[swordfight]

what does fargled mean? does it mean fixing? how about a forged knife?

[Daithi]

In this case it means "messed up" .